Talk:Mari Makinami Illustrious

Proper name
The experts at Evageeks say this is her proper name. "Actual Westernized name order going by 2.0's preview for Q.)". Merge any other information from the other article on this to here.   D r e a m Focus  18:21, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Manga
Mari appears in the bonus Chapter 97 of the manga, as a lesbian schoolgirl with a crush on Yui Ikari, her best friend. Arawn 999 (talk) 02:33, November 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not sure if she's lesbian.. It's really more like a strong admiration towards Yui. But hey, thanks for your help ! Much appreciated ! ^w^ HPZ - O.N.E. (talk) 22:50, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Do the math she was 16 in 1998 so she was born in 1982 and she was 33 in the year 2015 during 2.0


 * coughs*pedophile*coughs*  And 3.0 is 14 years after 2.0 so it takes place in 2029 so she is 47 years old, with the fukin body of a 20 year old, dayum173.242.247.149 00:17, March 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * The manga is set in its own continuity based on the original anime. Mari was only introduced in a bonus chapter after the manga ended, and there is no indication that she is the same Mari as seen in Rebuild. Arawn 999 (talk) 02:19, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring
I noticed you guys have been going back and forth with this. Who of you two has actually watched the camrip? From the pictures I have seen, they indeed look flirty. Please refrain from starting shipping wars on the site, longing for fictional characters coupling is not something to do here.

Find me someone who can prove me they have seen the movie and understands the language or I'll be locking this until actual, factual info is added. ~ The Maverick  013  02:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Just reverted it to the most descriptive version, for now . It will remain locked until real evidence is given to me, or someone who watched the movie ask me for permission. ~ The Maverick  013  02:30, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * That is exactly what I've done. I watched those yesterday and have been receiving a lot of stuff, as you know. Of course there is teasing being made (as is with the other characters, vague as it is), but saying they are flirting is outright making assumptions. Lots of people who watched the movie don't see it that way or have interpreted it very differently. Do you think I wouldn't add this stuff without having talked to at least a few people who watched the movie? There is precedent for that considering how she acts in the rest of the movie. You can apply the same logic to Misato. We're translating the subs right now, the booklets as well. See one (public) example from someone who watched the movie here, he even quotes an interview by Mari's VA (subforum password is "spoilmerotten"): https://forum.evageeks.org/post/913216/Shin-Eva-leak-general/#913216


 * We can't just go off impressions from a couple of minutes of camrips. You need to take the entire movie into context. The scene is referencing an earlier one with Mari being playful again, like she is in the whole movie. Again, this is coming from people who did watch the show. I hope you're aware of how people took the initial 3.0 spoilers for instance and how wildly innacurate their impressions were for weeks. Plus I just took off specific scene composition detail which I find wholly unnecessary. Do we really need to describe individual articles of clothing she's wearing? I am simply making a neutral description of things.FelipeFritschF (talk) 02:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Maverick Should I link the camrip clip subbed here? Because I pretty sure described every bit of the scene and by seeing the full clip, it would be quite descriptive and not interpretative (for example Felipe used "showing Shinji New world", when the dialogue shows it isn't their first contact, Shinji feets being first ones to touch the stairs and he being in front of her leading the way and so on. And that is why I took the effort to describe the final scenes of both character.


 * @Felipe: I read the description you linked but it seems to be a few days old. Only a few comments below, another user comments "It's an interpretation anyway, so it's best to wait to see what Anno says about it" and the latest comments are working under the logic that they are at least flirty. I do agree about the description being, well...a little too descriptive.


 * @Lemostr00: I would love to see the sequence but I'm not too sure about sharing copyrighted materials here at Fandom. ~ The Maverick  013  03:00, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm sending it to you. Mari teases and acts like a genki-girl throughout the movie. So saying this is something Shinji is doing as a couple is, while a valid interpretation, still... an interpretation. Other viewers are nothing her role in guiding Shinji, etc, Asuka's comments about Shinji needing a mother, not a girlfriend, and gravitating towards interpreting her that way. I'll see if I can send you some more. The movie doesn't confirm anything either way, Anno will probably not comment on anything this specific. Kensuke's VA for instance, has commented on his situation with Asuka and generally treated it as there being implications but nothing concrete. Mari's interview is not done yet.FelipeFritschF (talk) 03:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, I was talking about if you want to be spoiled, since the clip is 6-7 minutes long and it is basically the last scene of the entire movie. So it is a big spoiler. I can send to you by other means like twitter or something, if putting copyrighted material would bother the fandom.


 * Oh, don't worry, being spoiled is currently my responsibility and obligation. It's just that Fandom has in the past removed image files for having nipples, even GNR's featureless ones. They may not like to find links to scenes from a movie not yet released officially here. But mail, Discord or Skype are fine for me. ~ The Maverick  013  03:18, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I've sent them to you on Discord.Take a look.FelipeFritschF (talk) 03:21, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Felipe "Do we really need to describe individual articles of clothing she's wearing?"

Yes. And this particular scene is a great example of why. Look at Shinji's atire. He is wearing a suit, but one element of his suit is off: his tie. So do we infer that he finished working and was waiting for Mari (which is quite clear, since the dialogue says it so, Mari reaching out when the train arrives and they leaving by walking and not by taking another train. The clothes that the characters are wearing are important, even more when it is animation, since it couldn't be a case of: he just picked one and that is it. It is intentional. But lets go back to the scene, I described Mari wearing a pendant, but what if it is a locklet with a picture of her boyfriend or anything like that? We don't know, but it is information nonetheless that could be interpreted in anyway possible. But this is totally different than writing that Mari is a mother figure like you did in this same article, my edit has base in the text that I could SEE, not of what I WANTED it to be, for example, her pink blazer is dedicated to unit-08 and her green bag to unit-05.

So yeah, if we can, why not describe it.

@Maverick, what is your discord?


 * MVR13#9956 ~ The Maverick  013  03:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Maverick, I don't know how use discord well, I cant add you, mine is ts#0417


 * Well, Mari says she has kept him waiting in the previous scene, not Shinji. Either way, I think it's way overwritten. And I'm sorry, but the mother figure interpretation isn't coming just from me. This scene references a previous one with Asuka and Mari (the peakaboo game), Mari's general behaviour in the movie, and a specific conversation with Mari and Asuka about Shinji needing "a mother, not a girlfriend". This is why the people who have actually seen the movie have orientated me to put it there. It can be adjusted, sure, but it's not out of nowhere. Early on, people gets all sorts of inaccurate impressions from camrips.FelipeFritschF (talk) 03:52, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't have much time right now so I'll just paste what I mentioned to Maverick so people can chip in:
 * (referencing the earlier peakabook scene) This is when she first reintroduces herself to shinji, that's when he talks with asuka, too, and mari keeps teasing asuka about shinji and acting genki girl again. (regarding the ending scene) See she's smelling him Like she does in 2.0 And removing his choker, in that guiding role Now, can you interpret it as flirty? Sure. Is it a fact? Not that, either The folks you see talking to the user (in the forums) didn't see the movie though. A friend of mine talked to another viewer, he said the same about his impressions of mari, he's not online right now my friend screencapped his conversation. he didn't screencap the part talking about mari, however.
 * In this conversation he was talking about Kensuke and Asuka. This movie teases them a little bit, and teases Shinji and Asuka a lot, but there's no conclusion to any pairing. Mari herself only acts even teasingly in the first scene I mentioned (with Asuka there, again), and the ending. The reason I pointed out to Kensuke is that at first people were really hammering on that, but as more details surfaced people are understanding it's not that much. He also talked about Mari as "close friend", though.
 * Dialogue: Mari:       Who's there? Shinji:        Uhm, I don't know. Mari:        A hint: "Rooftop, glasses, large breasts, nice girl" Shinji:        The one with the parachute? Mari:        Correct! I haven't introduced myself. I'm Mari. Makinami Mari Illustrious. Once again, I'm pleased to meet you, Wille's puppy. *sound of sniffing* Mari:        Huh, you're a bit different. The scent of an adult? Then asuka talks to him: By the way, how did it go with Puppy? Asuka:        Nothing interesting. Mari:        Oh, (you said) you didn't care about boys of his age. Asuka:        What the brat needs is not a lover, it's a mother. Ma Mari:		Wo- isLast scene:  that? Man(Shinji?):	Large breasts, nice girls. Mari:		Right answer. *sound of sniffing* As always, you smell nice. Is that the scent of an adult?''
 * Note that middle scene I mentioned, this is right Asuka talks to Shinji, in Mari's presence. Hence why the meaning of the scene is just inconclusive. Can it be romantic? Sure. Does it have to be? No. Same as Misato kissing Shinji. You're probably all aware of how some people will insist on that reading, and while I think it's valid, it's not an absolute. Asuka has a lot of scenes with Shinji like this in the movie, as well, but I'm not sending these if you don't want them.
 * The reason I'm mentioning Knesuke is because early on people were really hammering on about it, as the early camrips were focusing on Asuka without much context, but as more details have surfaced people have realized it's not that much. Evageeks is in the process of translating the booklet interviews, see what his VA has to say: - Though there were many unexpected things in the film Kensuke's relationship with Asuka was particularly surprising. Since Kensuke has been close to Asuka since middle school at first I thought he helped her out of friendship, but then Yuko Miyamura told me Asuka called Kensuke "KenKen" and she found their emotional distance suspicious. As I thought "that is true..." my suspicion before long turned into certainty... (laugh) Shinji who is 14 years old inward and outward can't possibly save Asuka who is 14 yeard old outward yet 28 years old inward. Perhaps this means only Kensuke, who is 28 years old both inward and outward, can save her. In the Seiyuu Line group Yuko Miyamura said to me "If KenKen is going to save her please go ahead and save her". I was happy she didn't go "Eehhh, Kensuke is Asuka's partner?" instead. I'm looking forward to the premiere, wanting to see if the fans too will kindly say "I'm happy Kensuke saved her".
 * Now of course they aren't stupid and understand the audience is also being teased, but they also treat it as just implications. Miyamura even seems shocked Shinji didn't end up with Asuka (or anyone), and feels sorry for Asuka. So when I tell you that people who have watched the movie and know Japanese are going for an "ambiguous" interpretation (as usual with Eva), or otherwise "mother figure", friend, guide, etc, taking into account the movie as a whole, I'm saying that because I'd rather trust them than people trying to piece things together from a handful of screencaps, particularly when there is already a lot of trolling and misinformation being spread. Not that I'm blaming anyone in here of that, but you can end up on the receiving end of that down the grapevine.FelipeFritschF (talk) 05:00, 13 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Anno wanted Mari to destroy Eva and she sure did, apparently. =D
 * I would personally keep it to facts and facts only. Basically, right now, it would be describing the final scene as objectively as possible. Unless it's stated in additional materials (like booklets or even the DVD/BD releases of Shin Eva), we should leave it as such about their relationship and stop the shipping wars.
 * While the body language is a thing, it wasn't explicitly said by one or the other. Factually, Shinji told Asuka he liked her and Asuka told Shinji she liked him. And that's about it, as far as movie shipping facts. Nothing about Mari.
 * Now, as in everything Evangelion, you could read into a lot of things about this. Some are theorizing that Mari is meant to be a proxy for Moyoco Anno to Hideaki Anno's Shinji. Really, YMMV.
 * This isn't the place (nor the time really, at least until we get a proper raw) for shipping wars. And that's coming from someone who really shouldn't be objective about this topic as I actually like Mari quite a lot. HPZ - O.N.E. (talk) 12:58, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

uhhh hello i kinda feel like the guy wants to ship them lmao nothing judgemental you know so you cant say their flirting thats just mari being mari probs should just say they talk t each other and leave or w/e

I guess I'll let it like it is for now then, as it describes accurately Mari's scenes. I'll unlock the article but once again: no personal opinions, just descriptions. Also, keep an eye on character pages, shipping wars will surely ensue. ~ The Maverick  013  01:02, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Age
Her age in the Rebuild section is written as 38-48 in 2.0. As far as I know that's only speculation, likely wrong at that, the source provided is also speculation and I don't remember her age ever being specified. The manga isn't Rebuild so it's not a valid source, so all we know is that she's presumably and realistically at least 14 in 2.0, her silhouette is shown in the Yui days, which while realistically not the case, for all we know that silhouette is her mother, and she shows familiarity to Gendo and Fuyutsuki, which we don't know if it's real or sarcastic. Two things to note is that the Mari we see is almost certainly a clone due to the -nami name pattern we also see on the Asuka and Rei clones and she seems to be very knowledgeable about the Eva and familiar with LCL, both of which are likely because she really did come from the Yui days, so while there's some connection between that Mari and the one we see, we don't know what it is, if it's the same person or a clone, but it's likely that that connection is the Mari we see being a clone due to the name.

Either way, at best she's the same person and using Yui's age as a basis is still faulty and at worst she's a clone and she may only as old as Asuka.